Astrology and friends : thescruffypirate.org

Astrology and friends

A little while ago a friend of mine mentioned astrology, a subject that I am a firm believer is pure hogwash. I (probably not unsurprisingly) expressed this opinion to my friend and it turned out he was succeptable to the veracity of astrology's predictions. Which I didn't really think anyone thought astrology was real so this came as quite a surprise. But I did remember a time when I was in middle school and I wanted to believe and even bought a book about my sign (Sagittarius). So, I told my friend I would find a description of his sign (Cancer) online and send it to him and he could tell me if he thought it was accurate.

What I did then was take my description and replaced all instances of 'Sagittarius' with 'Cancer' and sent this to him in an email. His response was as expected, he thought it sounded like him. I then spoiled the surprise and told him what I did.

He sent me an email back saying I convinced him of how Astrology works. Which I guess was my goal, but now I sort of feel like a prick. What do we think?

Should I have let him come to his own conclusions? Should I have kept my opinions to myself? Religion is a tricky area when it comes to friends. I mean, I can't say I am unhappy with the results, I just feel a little manipulative and a little disrespectful. But if I know it is hogwash shouldn't I try to get my friends to know that it is hogwash as well? For their own good?

13 February 2009 05:04am UTC • 229 views • 6 comments

Tagged with astrology, friendship, question

6 comments

Boatswain The Fool

13 February 2009 06:28am UTC

I think that what you've shown your friend is not that astrology is hogwash but that evidence can't prove something to be true, only false. And, the personal experiences that generic astrological claims sounds like they apply to us is hardly sufficient evidence to say that astrology is true even with small probability.

In the end, it may well be that there is something about predicting people's attitudes/beliefs/&c. based on the month during which they were born (or some other general system), but the fact that astrological blurbs "sound right" is only convincing to us because humans are rather gullible beings.

In other words, your friend shouldn't be convinced that astrology is incorrect, just that his method for evaluating what is correct and incorrect is flawed... a property he shares with the rest of us.
Peon Peetie

13 February 2009 02:10pm UTC

you will meet someone new sometime before the end of next week...
Dread Pirate Benjamin

13 February 2009 10:13pm UTC

Well, I was more interested in the question as to whether or not I was being a bad friend by taking advantage of the facts that a) he wanted to believe in astrology, and b) trusted me and then used those facts to change or affect his point of view.

I gave this a lot of thought today while I was driving (to Boulder!) and decided that I wasn't. Given that he was undecided I think I was giving him more to think about. Had he already made up his mind and was a believer, I think it would be questionable.

I agree that what I did does not constitute proof that astrology is hogwash. I know* that astrology is hogwash, but alas like Omer said I cannot prove it. What I tried to do was make a convincing case for the hogwashness of astrology. It just so happened that my friend found my case convincing.

As for my email, I gave my friend 3 more thoughts on the matter:

1. Astrology was invented in a time when people thought the earth was
flat and the sun revolved around it.
2. I have met enough people born in December to know that all people
born in December aren't like me.
3. I have meet twins (not the identical types) (but born close enough
together that astrology would dictate identical fates), that have
drastically different personalities and lives

Some more thoughts (hopefully preemptive ☺) on those thoughts:

1. Obviously, when something was thought, or intuited, or whatever you want to call it, has no bearing on its veracity. This does not 'disprove' astrology, but I think it gives some context to it.
2. This was the real deal breaker for me in 8th grade.
3. I think this is really my best point.

I'm really wasn't trying to start an argument about astrology. If you want to believe it in that is just fine, I will never say another word on the subject to you if you do. But more once again was more curious as to what you thought of my meddling in my friends beliefs!

*In so far as I can "know" anything. I have just a firm belief in the hogwashness of astrology as I do in the fact that the sun will rise tomorrow. i.e. given all the evidence I have been given, that is the only possible conclusion that I could come to. I do realize that others could come to other conclusions.
Dread Pirate Benjamin

13 February 2009 10:13pm UTC

Peter: thanks, I'll do my best to not talk to a single new person until next Saturday. Take that!
The Anonymous Poppy

18 February 2009 04:03am UTC

Peter: not if I don't leave my apartment until the end of next week! I wonder if there's an astrology website for agoraphobes....
Peon Peetie

18 February 2009 12:55pm UTC

meh. they could always stretch it to be a character in a book or something like that. who knows what kind of rules they bend to "prove" that it's true.

by the way, there is good fortune coming your way. but don't ride your bike on thursday at noon!