Yet another pet peeve
In the post I just posted a second ago I alluded to another pet peeve of mine in the footnotes. I figured I would just go ahead and clear up the confusion.
So, this is a grammar pet peeve of mine but I might not necessarily know what I am talking about, so if you know a solution to my problem, please tell me!
In school we are taught that sentence ending punction should always be inside the quotes. But what if we have the following sentence?
Then Bob said, "so I turn right?"
Does this sentence mean that Bob asked the question, "So, I turn right?" or does it mean that I am asking if Bob said, "So, I turn right." We have ambiguity! And I was under the impression that proper use of grammar and punction is supposed to clear up amiguity.
Aside: this is probably more of a punction problem than a grammar problem, or are they the same thing?
So, I propose that unless the punction for the surrounding sentence and the quoted sentence match we always have the punction inside the quote and outside the quote. Even if it is ugly. For example:
- Then Bob said, "So, I turn right?".
- Then Bob said, "So, I turn right."?
- Then Bob said, "So, I turn right?"!
- Then Bob said, "So, I turn right."
- Then Bob said, "So, I turn right?"
And all of a sudden, no confusion! So, what do we think?
18 August 2008 02:32am UTC • 480 views • 2 comments
Tagged with petpeeve, grammar, punctuation, ambiguity
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2 comments
Boatswain The Fool
18 August 2008 06:32am UTC
So, for what it's worth, here is what I think the rule is (at least as far as I learned it):
Smaller punctuation (e.g., comma and period) always goes inside the quotation mark. So, "'Hi there,' he said."
Larger punctuation (e.g., question marks and exclamation points) goes inside the quotation mark only if it is part of the quote. So, we have: "He asked, 'where are you going?'" and "Did he say, 'I am going to the bathroom'?" and "Or did he say, 'where am I going?'" ... In that last one, you might be able to get away with, "Or did he say, 'where am I going?'?," but I'm not sure. That's a lot of punctuation.
At the same time, unless we do that crazy double question mark thing from the last example, we still have one of the ambiguities that you pointed out:
Statement ("?." in your system): Then Bob said, "where am I going?"
Question ("?" in your system): Then Bob said, "where am I going?"
So, I'm not sure. Your system definitely has this system beat there.
But, to my mind, the best solution (or at least the one that requires rewriting the fewest books on punctuation) is to avoid the ambiguity entirely by using question-words explicitly. Look at this, without any punctuation except the quotation marks: Did Bob ask "so I turn right"
(Maybe I'm wrong, but that intended meaning there is pretty clear to me.)
A fun aside: I think that ambiguity you found, between the "?" and "?." endings is not only a punctuation problem. Is it possible to distinguish the two in speech? The only way I can do it is by looking confused right when I start the sentence for "?" and only when I start the quote for "?."
Peon Peetie
18 August 2008 01:12pm UTC
i was always told if the punctuation is in the quoted sentence, then it's in the quotes.
eg: peter said "i'm going to the store."
did peter say "i am going to the store"?
peter said "am i going to the store?"
that's just what i was always told